Difference between GR, GX and GPX. And fuel & MIVEC query

[Bartpabicz]

Hi there,


yet again I seek wisdom. Could anyone please clarify for me what the main difference/s are between these three types of FTO's? I found this technical specifications on the web:

http://www.mitsubishi-fto.org/info/specs.htm

And even though I do understand that GPX is "strongest", "fastest" etc., is the difference rally that substantial and easily felt while driving? You did notice by now that I'm not very well acquainted with car-related stuff in general, even though I have been driving for years now. I simply am interested if such difference would be felt by a regular driver (ownership history includes Opel Astra 1.4 petrol and Opel Combo 1.7 DI). I recently bought GPX, which is a whole new level of experience, but will have to sell it due to difficulties with getting decent insurance quote, and am considering getting a GX since I already fell in love with FTO's. So, here are my questions:

1. What is the difference between GPX, GX and GR, aside from last two not having a MIVEC. Would I lose out much by moving from GPX to GX/GR?
2. Manual vs automatic (triptronic) gearbox. I did hear that manual FTOs use up about 2 litres more per 100km than automatics. Is it even possible? I was sure is was the other way around with AT being less fuel-efficient?
3. How does MIVEC work. Now, there are a lot of threads out there explaining how it works from mechanical point of view. I did however have problems locating any explanation as for "how it feels" to have a MIVEC, and not to have one. I was browsing through this forum a bit and read about MIVEC "kicking-in". THIS is what I don't understand. What exactly is this "kicking in"? Is it a sudden surge of power once I pass a certain RPM range? How does a MIVEC compare to non-MIVEC FTOs?
4. Is 20bhp more on GPX really that well felt than on 180BHP on GR/GX? Apologies if it sounds ridiculous, but for me, driving 70-90 BHP cars/vans was the norm, and FTOs seem light-weight already. So, is it really that big of a difference?

And again, I'd appreciate any information regarding this topic. Cheers!

[Dragonheart]

1. What is the difference between GPX, GX and GR, aside from last two not having a MIVEC. Would I lose out much by moving from GPX to GX/GR?
The difference is the Mivec, thats about it really.

2. Manual vs automatic (triptronic) gearbox. I did hear that manual FTOs use up about 2 litres more per 100km than automatics. Is it even possible? I was sure is was the other way around with AT being less fuel-efficient?
From having driven both, and being the owner of a tip, I can say that the manual are quicker, you lose about 20 bhp through the tip gearbox, its a great tidy transmission but there is a huge difference in power and pick up speeds. As for fuel consumption I can't really say. I lot of that goes down to how you drive, and how regularly you change oil and filters and stuff.

3. How does MIVEC work. Now, there are a lot of threads out there explaining how it works from mechanical point of view. I did however have problems locating any explanation as for "how it feels" to have a MIVEC, and not to have one. I was browsing through this forum a bit and read about MIVEC "kicking-in". THIS is what I don't understand. What exactly is this "kicking in"? Is it a sudden surge of power once I pass a certain RPM range? How does a MIVEC compare to non-MIVEC FTOs?
Mivec kicks in at 7500RPM, the engine note changes and you get a bit of a power surge.

4. Is 20bhp more on GPX really that well felt than on 180BHP on GR/GX? Apologies if it sounds ridiculous, but for me, driving 70-90 BHP cars/vans was the norm, and FTOs seem light-weight already. So, is it really that big of a difference?
Driving a manual GR would have probably the same power as a tip GPX, thats only my opinion though. The difference is the high revs and Mivec.

[Bartpabicz]

whoa, whole topic covered in just one reply! Honestly Dragonheart, I owe you BIG time for all the help you're providing me with! Thanks a LOT!

[Dragonheart]

S'alright. Thats what the forum is for after all, answering questions.

[Sebastian]

there are a few more things to make the reply complete ,and there are a few things that Martin stated wrong (par example mivec kick's in at 5500 rpm not 7500 ).
It was covered several times on the forum will get back with a more complete answer as soon as the hangover goes away

[Dragonheart]

Sorry my bad ya, typo error there on my behalf!

[colm_mcm]

Dragonheart covered a lot there. I know he knows when mivec kicks in so the typo is forgiven!

GR is 170 hp, auto is 4 speed
GX is 180 hp, auto is 5 speed
GPX is 197hp auto is 4 or 5 speed depending on year

GPX manual is a little faster at low speeds due to gear ratios, and the extra power high up means you can stay in a lower gear for longer so less gear changes needed
The manual box is more responsive to lifting off the accelerator so less braking

Spec on all v6 models is generous, but gpx will have side skirts and Fogs.
I wouldn't buy a non mivec fto myself as its widely available, and not troublesome.

The auto gpx is slower from take off compared to a manual gr but theres nothing between them after that.

The autobox was way ahead of its time, so if you like gizmos then a gpx with the tip box would be attractive, but obviously a manual mivec is still the daddy

[colm_mcm]

Generally if you can't insure a gpx - any fto is out of the question

[Bartpabicz]

thanks for clarifying all that Colm_mcm. Let me start from the end backwards:

Not neccesarily all FTO's are equally hard to insure. I had no problems obtaining quote for versions with smaller engines.

So, Mivec engine is the one to go for. I still have to go through some insurance-quote-obtaining pain-in-the-bottom process tomorrow to make sure the FTO I'm looking at right now will be insured this time.

It seems this concludes info-gathering process. I wanted to thank you both, Colm_mcm and Dragonheart for taking time and explaining all the issues to me. Cheers!



P.S. Ahh, just one more thing - what is the average lifespan of FTO engine, if it has been taken care of properly? Mileage-wise, where would you put a line which you would never cross when buying an FTO? There are a lot of 150k+ FTO's on the market for reasonable price, and price goes sharply upwards as mileage is dropping.

[colm_mcm]

Which version did you get a quote on and which company?

Re mileage, they'll go well beyond 300k if minded. It's all down to maintainence. A well minded 200k engine could be in better shape than a not minded 100k.

[Bartpabicz]

Quinn Direct.

GS, GR, GPvR, GPX MIVEC, all are easily insured. They do seem to have an issue with GX's and DE3A imports only (that is, taking my profile into consideration - Polish Driving licence held for 9+ years, 5 years NCB, 30-year-old male).

[colm_mcm]

It's just a glitch with their system. They're all imports. All gpx models are mivec. Just pick the spec you have and go with whichever one works.

De3a is the chassis code for all fto v6 models, they're all imports.

[Bartpabicz]

in that case, of all FTO's available to be insured, only the one which I've been eyeing for a while is unavailable (GX)! It seems I have no choice but to use one of the insurance tricks to be allowed to drive. Shame, real shame. Thank you for your advice.

[Kace]

A GX is simply a GR with a few extras. I would call it out as a GR. If you're worried about it,remove the sticker off the boot.

[colm_mcm]

in that case, of all FTO's available to be insured, only the one which I've been eyeing for a while is unavailable (GX)! It seems I have no choice but to use one of the insurance tricks to be allowed to drive. Shame, real shame. Thank you for your advice.

The Quinn model thing isn't a trick. They're just idiots.
You already have a gpx, just insure it. A gx isnt as good a model.

[Bartpabicz]

@kace an interesting point! I'll look into that. But wouldn't that be fraud? Also, the GX has some mods installed, that might prove difficult as well.

@colm_mcm As for model "thing", when an accident happens (and I certainly do not plan to partake in one) I suppose insurance company looks heavily into ways of not paying up, i.e. say that you didn't declare extras/mods in the car, or that it's a completely different model (this info is included in Logbook I presume? And they have a right to have a look at it). I might be too careful in assessing such situation as well (and hopefully I am). Otherwise I'd be ready to insure the GX as GR. As for GPX that I have, I'd be reluctant to invest another 500 to get the car up to speed (bodywork needs a bit of attention as well, not much though). I'd prefer to put another 500 on top of what I'd be investing anyway and get a GX with 150k on the clock, 2 years younger and with manual gearbox and handful of modifications on top of that. And well-minded by an FTO enthusiast. Or do I...? You're saying I should keep the car I have? I mean, interior is in spotless condition, it's mechanically sound (just needs thorough servicing), it cost me up to date about 900 quid altogether. BUT, it does have an oil leak, and a substantial one. Might be camshaft/cram shaft seal (as my mechanic told me) or there might be another reason for it (hopefully nothing to do with gasket - I heard there is a part/joint that usually leaks in FTO's). Let me know what you think. Thanks!

[Kace]

@kace an interesting point! I'll look into that. But wouldn't that be fraud? Also, the GX has some mods installed, that might prove difficult as well.

I wouldn't call this fraud - the cars are 95% the same and have the same engine. A GX is really a glorified GR - it is a GR as far as I'm concerned and there is hardly a person in Ireland or the UK that could tell the difference between a GX and a GR apart from reading the boot sticker, hence my suggestion to remove it. Happy to be corrected here if I'm overstating this.

GPX and GS are a whole different story and easy to tell apart.

[CJ]

Stickying this topic, useful discussion re model differences.

[colm_mcm]

As the gx is 10hp more than the gx, I'd be reluctant to insure it as one. That said, the assessor would really need to know his ftos to know the difference.

Insure the car online with Quinn, pick the correct model and off you go. I really don't see what all the fuss is about

[Bartpabicz]

EDITED: obviously insuring a car in Quinn is possible, my apologies for misleading info - must have eaten something that day ._.

As for the models, you meant GX has 10bhp more than GR?

[colm_mcm]

Yes the gr is 170, gx is 180.

[Baroncell]

my mivec kicks in at about 6.800 rpm... so there must be many variations as when the mivec kicks in?

[StewyD32]

That's very high. Don't think I ever brought mine up to that much .
To be honest I thinking kicks in before the norm

[Bernard]

Mivec should kick in at 5,500 RPM, above or below that and there's a problem.

[Baroncell]

problem as a mechanical problem?