Irish road deaths

[soc]

Is anyone else starting to wonder what the hell is going on with all the major accidents on the roads these days?? It seems every couple of days I open the paper and there's a few more killed - usually travelling down or around the country (NOI) and at very early or late hours... I dunno what the solution is but I can't believe how many people speed in the wet just as they would in the dry or drive way beyond the limits of their car or the road. I've seen a few lunatics around over the past few months and it's starting to scare me... especially the many non-national cars that you regularly see driving like lunatics....... (NOI to anyone)......

Surely it's time for the government to do something realistic, i.e. not more speed cameras/checks on the motorway or dual carriage-ways. I'd call for such things as random breath testing for everyone, road side checks on any cars that look dodgy, enfore the NCT requirements (i.e. check if cars have a valid cert), focus NCT on safty issues and not crap like number plate lights!!, stiffer penalties for drink driving, driver education in schools, have a cap on the power/engine capacifty of cars that L plate drivers or newly qualified (up to year after passing test) can drive....... or am I just being an old crank??

[Muad_dib77]

It's getting pretty insane alright.

The only comparison I can really make is to Denmark.

(/start rant)

Ireland does have really bad roads - especially down the county. Full of holes - and quite narrow in most places.

No steet lights in most places.

Poor markings, those silly cat-eyes stuck in the road surface is the worst idea ever in a country of mud and rain! Just plain stupid. Plastic pole type things at the side of the road would be much more effective..(bendy ones - just incase somebody does stray off the road)

Now I'm not saying responsibility does not lie with the drivers - ultimately a good driver knows the condition of the road & the car he/she is in.

Spot checks of Vehicle condition would have an effect too..
Not just tax/nct check.. Garda should have a look at tyres as well - I have no doubt there are a few baldies out there.

However in my mind - the way people can just get on the road here with almost no driving education at all is just asking for trouble.
Learner driver?? More like "killer on the road" if you ask me.

The only way to teach people to drive is through education - mandatory courses, on track and with a driving instructor. I had to pass a theoretic and a practical test before I got my license... cost me 3grand - but I'd like to think that I'm a less crap driver than most learners in their little death-traps. (NOI!)

(/rant over)

I still love Ireland though - and there is no way I'd move back!

[kevinod]

There's a couple of things that methinks would be good... you'll only drive stupidly if you think you'll get away with it.

- more gardai about so the chances of you coming across a garda while driving badly is a lot higher (pretty low right now)

- somehow encourage more people to report dangerous drivers. If I got that guys number plate yesterday morning he'd have been reported as soon as I got to work! more chance of being reported, less likely to do it.

- a limit put on inexperienced drivers as to how fast they are allowed to go, with mandatory trackers installed in the car, and a requirement to submit monthly reports from these devices. I'm sure people will find ways around these yokes but it'll bring down the number of people driving too fast before they've learned to handle the car.

- advanced driving lessons and tests, with a mandatory reduction in insurance if you have an advanced license.

[CJ]

usually travelling down or around the country (NOI) and at very early or late hours

I reckon that drink must be a factor in at least 50% of fatal accidents, this percentage would go off the scale from 11pm - 6am (I always thought it was a pity that they never released these stats).

When you see the remains of Starbos and kitted Puntos on the news, you can pretty sure that the 20 year old behind the driving seat wasn't sparing the horses at the time if impact. The fact is that the majority of drivers speed to some degree or othar at various stages, I'd be lying if I said I didn't put the boot down on occasion (in the right condidions). I've kinda lost my train of thought here so I'll let you guys continue with a constructive debate

CJ

[gtoirl]

It always amazes me, In Ireland about 20% more people die from suicide each year then die from road deaths, where are all the add campaigns on the TV, radio and billboards to try and reduce this figure?

[soc]

It always amazes me, In Ireland about 20% more people die from suicide each year then die from road deaths, where are all the add campaigns on the TV, radio and billboards to try and reduce this figure?

Fair point but, while suicide is a real tragedy you don't kill 2 or 3 other innocent bystanders at the same time - a large portion (in fact probably a majority) of road deaths are innocent drivers dragged into a fatal crash but another driver - and in many cases the responsible driver was either speeding or drunk!

[Dave]

- a limit put on inexperienced drivers as to how fast they are allowed to go, with mandatory trackers installed in the car, and a requirement to submit monthly reports from these devices. I'm sure people will find ways around these yokes but it'll bring down the number of people driving too fast before they've learned to handle the car.

We did try and do this through our Traksure system, we put about 2500 young drivers on cover and of those only one was was involved in a fatal accident and at that he was hit head on... we approached the government and they weren't too interested in backing it and even the insurance company that we used didn't live up to their side, as they weren't pulling in as high a profit as normal!!
i started driving without this and i was a bit of a liability, got done for speeding and dangerous and reckless, which was later dropped but i got this tracker in and it changed my habits big time, and even after i finished the term my driving has more or less stayed the same, i don't speed like i used to and definitely pay more attention to the limits!!
but all that aside the majority of deaths on the road in my mind are drink related!! there was a news article about the fuzz not putting up road blocks near some of the bigger pubs with car parks because there would be complaints from the pub owners!! sort of says it all!!

[soc]

usually travelling down or around the country (NOI) and at very early or late hours

I reckon that drink must be a factor in at least 50% of fatal accidents, this percentage would go off the scale from 11pm - 6am (I always thought it was a pity that they never released these stats).

I agree - something I feel VERY strongly about - drink drivers are a$$holes! I firmly believe the penalties are not even close to severe enough for any caught drink driving! As far as I'm concerned there is NO excuse - it is not that difficult to either not drink or just get a taxi home if you have been drinking!

When you see the remains of Starbos and kitted Puntos on the news, you can pretty sure that the 20 year old behind the driving seat wasn't sparing the horses at the time if impact.

Personally I'd say these kind of crashes are the result of an inexperienced driver speeding in inappropriate conditions or even inappropriate speeding (see below).

The fact is that the majority of drivers speed to some degree or othar at various stages, I'd be lying if I said I didn't put the boot down on occasion (in the right condidions).

I agree - in a strict sense of the word I speed. In fact I'd say at least 50% of the time I speed. But there is a difference - I don't do inappropriate speeds - I may do 50mph on the stillorgan dual carriage-way but I won't do 50mph outside a school or in a house estate or through a village, etc. Equally I generally won't go over 80mph on a motorway and the very few times I have pushed the limits this has been in good dry weather with good visibility and only for a few seconds! IMHO this would be a responsible attitude to driving and speed... not the "I'm boy racer so I have to race everyone and everything on the roads even if that includes doing 60mph in a 30mph zone outside a school!!"


Hey, but this is just my 2 cents!

[gtoirl]

The government should introduce more realistic limits and enforce them more. I no longer drive on the nass dual carriageway or the long mile road when heading that direction as I know I would be unable to stick to the speed limits on these roads. People get so used to breaking speed limits they don’t give it a second thought. I purposely come off the motorway at a later exit through the industrial estates where the roads are the same speed limit but I can actually stick to it without too much bother.

I had to drive to the red cow the other day for a meeting and thought to myself this is the one day I’ll be done for speeding on this stupid road, so when I came off the motorway stuck to the limit the whole way. Felt like I was standing still till a guard came up behind on his bike, after peering into the car for a while wondering why I was going so slow he then must of noticed his speed and pulled in behind me. Was so funny quickly caused a wall of cars who would not pass the guard who would not pass me, felt like I was leading a convoy, crawling down along the road.

Another one I love is driving at 50Km/h down onto the M1 at the port tunnel works the whole way down to the M50 exit. You should try it some day.

[soc]

The government should introduce more realistic limits and enforce them more. I no longer drive on the nass dual carriageway or the long mile road when heading that direction as I know I would be unable to stick to the speed limits on these roads. People get so used to breaking speed limits they don’t give it a second thought. I purposely come off the motorway at a later exit through the industrial estates where the roads are the same speed limit but I can actually stick to it without too much bother.

I had to drive to the red cow the other day for a meeting and thought to myself this is the one day I’ll be done for speeding on this stupid road, so when I came off the motorway stuck to the limit the whole way. Felt like I was standing still till a guard came up behind on his bike, after peering into the car for a while wondering why I was going so slow he then must of noticed his speed and pulled in behind me. Was so funny quickly caused a wall of cars who would not pass the guard who would not pass me, felt like I was leading a convoy, crawling down along the road.

Another one I love is driving at 50Km/h down onto the M1 at the port tunnel works the whole way down to the M50 exit. You should try it some day.

I hear you - it sucks a$$ - it's the same on the stillorgan dual carriage-way and I know the bit of the M1 you're talking about. And I regularly drive the Naas road to visit my cousins - it's stupid!! The old airport road to Swords is the same - wide, 2 lanes and 60kph limit - feels like you're standing still!

[IrishPhoenix]

Yeah it's near impossible to do 50kph on some of the dual carriageways or on roads like the navan road. Everyone starts flashing you or doing their best to overtake you, even though theres a chance of the gatso van being there. There is a new road from Blanch to Ongar which is a straight run for a couple of kilometres. You could really speed on this road and yet its limit is 50kph even though its not strictly residental as all estates are walled off on it.

I agree that a stronger Garda presence is needed. when penalty points were brought in, it slowed people for a while, but as time went on the odds of getting caught lessened or became more apparent, so peoples bad habits creep back in again. More traffic cops are needed and more education. Like in the US were offenders are then given extra education (like the Simpsons when homer was caught drunk driving, although I dont know if that did him any good! lol)

Mostly cameras are seen as a money making racket for the government, and they are often located on motorways rather than at schools etc.

My fingers hurt from typing now

[mick_dont_surf]

i agree with all the above to completely. but its the ejits in fast cars that drive recklessly that make my blood boil. ive done a few stupid things but never intentionally and never to show off.

i was driving to dublin from galway a few weeks ago and got stuck behind a cie bus. when i did get to overtake i had to accel to 75 or so and go around, suddenly the scooby that was sitting behind me, went around me on the hard shoulder. nearly killed me and him. a car was sitting on the hard shoulder coming the other way. i had to break to virtually a stop and pull back in behind the bus. the scooby pulled in front of me. missed me by a foot or two. and nearly hit the parked car. he then went on to overtake two more cars in succession.
the cars coming the other way had to pull over to the hard shoulder were one of the nearly hit the parked car. it could of been a big pile up especially with the bus. i totally crap myself.

ive never been so angry in my life. completely freaked shaking and everything.
a bit down the road i spotted him at the service station in athlone i pulled over and dragged him over the bonnet of his car.
i dont think he ll do it again in a hurry.

sorry for the rant. but he could of killed a lot of people.
i dont mind people hoe drive quick but life is far too precious to take stupid risks.

[CJ]

a bit down the road i spotted him at the service station in athlone i pulled over and dragged him over the bonnet of his car.
i dont think he ll do it again in a hurry

You're a lunatic mick but I like you're style! What was his reaction when you grabbed a hold of him? Anyone who double-overtakes obviuosly hasn't got a brain in their head to start with.

CJ

[IrishPhoenix]

lol! that's great that you got him. There's many and eejit that gets away with it. What amazes me is people's general lack of awareness or ignorance to the fact they've done something wrong. They either look at you puzzled or give u the finger when u flash or beep them for doing something stupid.

This guy in a small jeep pulled straight across from the slow lane to the fast lane on the m50, even though there was no space in front of me and nowhere to go. he almost came right in on the side of my car, so i beeped and flashed and got enraged. It was then i saw his wheelchair in the back and the sticker on the glass. I still would of love to put him in his place though

I find now if someone is going faster than the speed limit and is coming up close to my rear (no puns ) ,it's better to just move out of his way than to get angry. Let them race to their own deaths. They are in a big hurry to get nowhere.

Ip

[pergau]

I often wonder about the amount of drink that is involved in road deaths.
I suspect that if it was the main factor, we would be besieged with statistics to show that whatever percent of fatalities were as a result of someone being over the limit. The lack of hard evidence leads me to believe that it is not the main or sole factor is most cases. It is, however, an easy one to blame.

I accept that alcohol and driving is a bad combination but I think that bad roads, boy racers and driver frustration are more likely to be the cause of accidents. I remember how I was when I first got a car - It was only a Mini but I drove it like a maniac and the main problem was that I had no idea how to handle a car properly or it’s limits. If I had an FTO then it would have been disastrous. Boys especially, but an increasing number of young girls, have fast cars and, like all young people, no sense of their own mortality. It's very difficult to explain to a kid that not only do they have to be sensible on the road but that they have to take into account the other drivers and that they may not have the same reactions etc. It’s no coincidence that most of the people that die in the crashes are young.

Do you remember the ad campaign from years ago showing a learner driver being warned to stop when a football bounced onto the road in front of him and a kid ran out after it a few seconds later. There was another ad in the series showing to look under the parked cars along a road to see if someone e.g. kids were standing there. I don't know if it was me maturing or if it was the effect of the ads but one I realised that I was not in control of all the factors, I definitely started driving a lot more carefully after that. It still frightens me how long it takes to stop a car when I have to do so in an emergency – even in the dry.

I feel that the reason that there is so much speeding on our roads is due to a combination of unsuitable limits (meaning that people are characterised as speeding when they were travelling safely at a reasonable speed on a road that was capable of that speed) and frustration with the inadequate infrastructure that we have. I drive to Cork and Galway a lot and the main instances of bad driving that I experience are due to people getting stuck behind slow traffic and acting like idiots to get past it (We’ve all done this). When you’re on a two lane dual carriageway, it is normally feasible to pass someone without endangering everyone on the road but when you’re stuck behind a tractor doing 50KPH and taking up all of the road, it brings out the worst in people who will overtake on blind bends or crests or simply plough out into the incoming traffic hoping that they will move out of the way. When people are held up like that they tend to drive faster than they normally would when they clear the obstacle as if they were trying to make up the lost time. This sort of behaviour happens mainly on the bad roads. Again, most of the deaths appear to happen on country roads.

The other point that I have to make is about the illogical speed limits that we have. One reason for this is as a result of County Councils wanting to designate roads for their own purposes eg development. An Bord Pleanla will look unfavourably on an application for a development that opens on to a road that has a fast speed limit so the council will keep a low limit on a road that they may intend to develop several years in the future. Other reasons are roads having been upgraded but the council hasn’t bothered to reflect this in the speed limits. Or sometimes it is due to factors that are not immediately obvious eg two exits from a road that are relatively close together so drivers don’t realise why people are indicating or slowing.

I would like to see a system like they are supposed to have in the UK now where cameras can only be installed in black spot areas. Most of the ones that we have at the moment would be exposed (sorry) for the moneymaking schemes that they are.

I would favour a system where learners and new licensees have a number of points on their licence and lose them gradually over a few years (as long it didn’t bugger them for insurance) this might cause them to think about driving so not to lose their licence. It’s the first few years driving where you learn all the bad habits and are more likely to crash)

Mostly, I believe that enforcement should be there to punish infringements and to persuade people to drive carefully – not to generate revenue.

Sorry about the rant but at least I feel better now.