decisions decisions

[paul2508]

hi peeps,been awhile since i was last on this. after i sold my fto i have been looking for anew fto,but i have been leaning towards getting an audi tt,i have always wanted one and i think they are a lovely car. thinking of getting a 225bhp model, i have heard god things about the car, i was just wondering if i could get any feedback off any of you peepson what to do, if anyone can tell me good points and bad on both fto and tt. trying to weigh up my decision, hope to hear from you all soon

paul.

[d_dan]

from what i hear the suspension is crap, and for the price tou would get a really mint fto

[colm_mcm]

I took one in as a trade in a few months back, drove it for a while and absolutely loved it. it was a quattro 180bhp model (I have briefly driven the 225 before, but not for a long while like the 180), which feels quicker than the GPX, there are waves of torque and as it has a 6 speed box, it's easy to keep in the power band. I missed the top end revviness that the FTO has, but it has to be said, on a back road the 180 would leave a GPX behind, I kept up with a DC2 type R no problems in the twisties, and the car was a whole lot more planted than the FTO.

Then there's comfort and refinement, suspension was on a par with the FTO, but cabin noise was much lower, the quality of the interior plastics is great, and the design is brilliant. It does feel like the Beetle a little bit though, with the curve on the roof, but overall it's a great car and obviously from a different era to the FTO.

That said, there's something clinical about the whole thing, driving it fast is too easy and it's not nearly as involving or shouty as the Mitsi. If I had to drive a car 7 days a week, it'd be a contender.

Downsides are they're not that reliable, at one stage 1 in 5 TTs had an engine failure, there are also traction control worries, and other gremlins that wouldn't be an issue on the FTO.

[paul2508]

I took one in as a trade in a few months back, drove it for a while and absolutely loved it. it was a quattro 180bhp model (I have briefly driven the 225 before, but not for a long while like the 180), which feels quicker than the GPX, there are waves of torque and as it has a 6 speed box, it's easy to keep in the power band. I missed the top end revviness that the FTO has, but it has to be said, on a back road the 180 would leave a GPX behind, I kept up with a DC2 type R no problems in the twisties, and the car was a whole lot more planted than the FTO.

Then there's comfort and refinement, suspension was on a par with the FTO, but cabin noise was much lower, the quality of the interior plastics is great, and the design is brilliant. It does feel like the Beetle a little bit though, with the curve on the roof, but overall it's a great car and obviously from a different era to the FTO.

That said, there's something clinical about the whole thing, driving it fast is too easy and it's not nearly as involving or shouty as the Mitsi. If I had to drive a car 7 days a week, it'd be a contender.

Downsides are they're not that reliable, at one stage 1 in 5 TTs had an engine failure, there are also traction control worries, and other gremlins that wouldn't be an issue on the FTO.

you really helped meout alot there colm,cheers. i was gonna get any colour type then get it resprayed white, get it lowered and put black alloys on it with chrome rim. plus the 225 model has 4wd if im not mistaken, still dunno what to do

[colm_mcm]

225 has quattro standard, it was optional on the 180.

the 2WD drives like a Mk4 Golf GTI (as in, not great)


Why not just hold out for a white one. the one I was driving was red and looked amazing when polished, not a very popular colour on the TT, but deffo nicer than the usual silver black and blue you see everywhere.
Don't listen to anyone who calls it a hairdressers car either.

bear in mind, a proper respray will cost 3-4k and white will go out of fashion again, it's just a phase.


This will all seem like heresy to some people here!

[paul2508]

225 has quattro standard, it was optional on the 180.

the 2WD drives like a Mk4 Golf GTI (as in, not great)


Why not just hold out for a white one. the one I was driving was red and looked amazing when polished, not a very popular colour on the TT, but deffo nicer than the usual silver black and blue you see everywhere.
Don't listen to anyone who calls it a hairdressers car either.

bear in mind, a proper respray will cost 3-4k and white will go out of fashion again, it's just a phase.


This will all seem like heresy to some people here!

head is melted on what to do,skyline was in the pipeline too

[gary d]

If you can afford it, go for the skyline. In a league of its own, massive tuning potential. My mothers gettin a TT next and shes 50

[CJ]

soc has a TT, he should be able to offer some additional practical advice. While you're at it, go drive a 231 RX-8 for comparison purposes

CJ

[soc]

I own a 225TTC - before that I had a golf mk4 GTI 1.8T and before that an FTO GR.

I loved the FTO - handling was brilliant and the sound of the V6 was great. But the long and short of it is the TT is a much better allround car - it's a massive leap in refinement and handling.

I've had my TT for 2.5 years now - the longest I've kept any car by miles. I've been toying with replacing it over the past few months and I cannot think of anything that would come close for the money. Sure there are better cars but all are a lot more expensive.

My honest assessment of the key points would be as follows:

1) Interior
Best in it's class by miles. It has a very special feel and you feel coccooned in the car. Everything is very well styled and has a quality feel. The seats are not as bolstered as I would like but more than adequate. My car is black with black interior which I think is one of the best colour combinations. The only other one I would go for is white paintwork and black interior. Steer clear of the blue.... nasty colour for the interior.

2) Design
The car is an iconic design - much like the FTO it still looks fresh today. The standard shape is untouchable. Add a set of 18's and a 30mm drop in suspension and it is perfect. There's loads of minor improvements that can be made depending on individual taste such as the V6 bumper, V6 rear spoiler, angel eyes (they actually look cool), DRLs (they also look cool, seriously ), etc but the fundemental shape remains iconic,

3) Performance
The 180bhp has the smaller k03s turbo (same as the golf mk4 1.8t gti) - you can map this to max 220bhp and 220ft/lb torque). Most 180bhp TT's in Ireland are quattro - I believe the fwd only came in around 04/05 but I could be wrong there - obviously the quattro makes the car heavier but the few 180bhp cars I test drove before purchasing felt pretty fast. The 180bhp will spool quicker than the 225bhp (bigger ko4 turbo) so the initial 1st gear shove is more intense but the 225bhp is much faster - mapped you'll see 260bhp with no other mods and in this state of tune 3rd gear is brutal (I'm guessing 0-60 in under 6 seconds is acheiveable with the right launch). But in real world terms (with quattro) it is much faster than the figures suggest and a brilliant allweather daily driver. I drove Russmans old 350z (276bhp) and reckon my TT would easily keep up in a straight line. But obviously that's a subjective opinion but for the real world where we don't go around racing each other and enjoyment comes from solitary blasts around back roads the TT is more than fast enough.

4) Handling
This is one area where the TT does need minor improvements - out of the box the stance is too high and understeer is apparent when pushing on. You can correct this easily with some modshack modified front wishbone bushes that replicate the early 1999 TT prior to the handling recalls i.e. the pre-spoiler cars which were set up with more driver focus. I would avoid any cars with 16's as I think they wheels look rediculously weedy. If you were to add something like adjustable dampers and lowering springs suddenly you have a serious performer - 4 wheel drifts are easy to provoke in the wet while still offering a phenomenal level of grip and excellent response.

5) Build
In my experience the TT is very well built - I had a few minor common issues - failed coilpacks (easy to replace) and a leaking secondary water pump (again easy to replace). The only other issue I had was a cracked coil spring - this actually happened as my mechanic was driving the car into his drive to replace the shocks and springs (I s**t you not). There are a few common issues that you should look out for which include those mentioned above and also failing dash pods - I suspect if you're going for an older car you should be ok there as most failed within the first five years. In terms of engine reliability I'd have to disagree with Colm - the 1.8 block is used in a huge amount of the VAG range - golf, leon, tt, & a3. They should be good for serious mileage. I have 72k on mine now, 20k in the last 2.5 years and (mapped for 2 of those 2.5 years) and I have had no problems at all with the engine (just jinxed it now haven't I.... touches wood). You will get the usual interior rattles for older stiffly sprung cars but nothing worth writing home about. In fact my TT has less rattles than my mates 2003 M3 and the only think that annoys me is the exhaust knocking (but once I replace the hanger bushes that should be solved).

Long and short is the TT is a much, much better car than most realise. I love this car and have seriously been considering keeping it as a weekender instead of selling/trading when I change.

You should get on to the tt-forum for more way info on the TT and a lot of different user experiences.

Ultimately, like any car purchase you should go see a lot of different cars - prices might seem very cheap right now but I'm guessing there are some real s**tters out there.

I'm doing a big (belated) spring clean on Saturday so I'll post some before and after photos once I'm done

[soc]

If you can afford it, go for the skyline. In a league of its own, massive tuning potential. My mothers gettin a TT next and shes 50

Your mother has good taste

[soc]

Downsides are they're not that reliable, at one stage 1 in 5 TTs had an engine failure, there are also traction control worries, and other gremlins that wouldn't be an issue on the FTO.

Not sure where the metrics come from but I've never seen any mention of engine failure as a common problem & the tt-forum is the definitive TT owners club forum - they forced Audi to recognise dash pod failures as a manufacturer fault and there were less than 1 in 5 failing so I'm guessing if there were 1 in 5 TTs with engine failure it would have been picked up on that forum

Never seen any issues mentioned with traction control on the tt-forum either. In fact, in 3 the years I'm browsing that forum I only came across 1 engine failure.

There are a good few big turbo cars running circa 330bhp on stock internals as well with no real reliability issues.

[colm_mcm]

I'm looking at an article I cut out a few years ago and kept (think it was from the Indo in 2006) Maybe engine failure was a little strong. but 1 in 5 did break down on the side of the road when under 2 years old.

Which consumer survey......the "wooden spoon went to the Audi TT for the second year running........The which survey describes BMW's decline as "another chapter in the tale of woe for German cars once known for their dependability". The German make VW is joined in the poor category this year by Audi, which dropped two places in the table in as many years. .........In addition to car reliability, the survey analaysed the breakdown rate of cars up to two years old. Audi was bottom of the list with 1 in 5 Audi TT models breaking down.

The traction control light problem was seen by myself over the years from appraising them as trade ins, but as I have never actually owned one, or sold new Audis, I'd have no idea as to what might cause the problem or how easy it would be to fix.

What Car? also lists the TT as the second worst car for reliability claims at 59 per 100 cars. this was beaten by the Renault Espace (69 per 100)

[soc]

I'm looking at an article I cut out a few years ago and kept (think it was from the Indo in 2006) Maybe engine failure was a little strong. but 1 in 5 did break down on the side of the road when under 2 years old.

Which consumer survey......the "wooden spoon went to the Audi TT for the second year running........The which survey describes BMW's decline as "another chapter in the tale of woe for German cars once known for their dependability". The German make VW is joined in the poor category this year by Audi, which dropped two places in the table in as many years. .........In addition to car reliability, the survey analaysed the breakdown rate of cars up to two years old. Audi was bottom of the list with 1 in 5 Audi TT models breaking down.

The traction control light problem was seen by myself over the years from appraising them as trade ins, but as I have never actually owned one, or sold new Audis, I'd have no idea as to what might cause the problem or how easy it would be to fix.

What Car? also lists the TT as the second worst car for reliability claims at 59 per 100 cars. this was beaten by the Renault Espace (69 per 100)

Mmm, I'd imagine the breakdowns were mostly a result of failed coilpacks - happened to me twice. Stranded the first time on stilorgan dual carriage way - second time I noticed it before it actually failed. In that sense there was real unreliability but that problem was also relevant to all 1.8t engines - I had similar issues with both my mk4 gti's - still you're right in what you say above.

Wrt traction control light - never heard of that but that's not to say it might not be an issue - I did a quick search on the tt-forum and didn't get much info.

Still I guess there are a few niggles with the TT but none serioues - all are easily remedied.

[soc]

So around 1pm on Saturday I dug out the Megs220 and had a crack at bringing up the paint work again. Last time I used it in anger was end of last summer when I worked on some noticeable scratches on the bonnet. These were out there by an idiot valeter in a certain car park in town who clearly washed the car with grit - I can't prove jacks**t but the car went in with no scratches and next day when I inspected it lo-and-behold the magic scratches appeared


Anyway Audi paint must be as hard as people say cause that took me ages so I never made it around the whole car so on Saturday I was determined to go the whole hog!

I kicked off by foaming the car (love that stuff - looks great when it goes on) and followed on by washing with a lambs wool mit using the 2 bucket method and Johnsons baby shampoo. Once clean and rinsed down I set to work with the clay bar - I used a swissvax bar which I bought a few years back. Suprisingly not a lot came off so it definitely pays to clay once a year as the paint was pretty clean from last summer. Once finished claying I foamed and rinsed again before drying off (I used a roll of toilet paper ).

Now it was time to fire up the Megs220 - I started on the bonnet which still had the some lightly visible scratches from last year and I used a Sonus SFX-1 swirl removing pad and Poorboys SSR3 . Jesus, the paint is hard - it took ages so after an hour I decided not to get bogged down on the bonnet again. I finished the bonnet with a Sonus SFX-2 polishing pad with Poorboyx SSR-2. It looked great - the odd scratch is still very slightly visible up close but I was more than happy with my amateur work and reckon next weekend I can finish it off completely.

Once the bonnet was done I stuck with the SFX-2 and Poorboys SSR2 for the rest of the car as the paintwork is in better condition than the bonnet (very light swirling but no scratches). It took another 2 hours to get around the whole car but I think it was worth it.

After polishing was complete I rinsed and dried the car again before applying a layer of Dodo Juice Hard Candy - jeez is this wax hard to apply - it took about 30 minutes to coat the entire car. You're only supposed to leave it on for about 10 mins before buffing so by the time I was ready to buff it had been curing for 30+ minutes - this made it a pretty hard job which took another 30 minutes. I think next time I'll do a panel at a time or else try some different wax

So the job took about 6 hours (excluding breaks for food) and by the time I was finished it was too dark to take photos - I did get some before and during photos but they're on my phone and I haven't downloaded them yet so these ones were taking on Sunday outside our apartment - I think it was worth the effort and for anyone selling a car it would make all the difference.

I included a photo newly purchased in 2006 + some wearing the old RSTTs

Newly purchased


Dirty & wearing RSTTs




Just cleaned














The money shot



My old FTO (I miss that car )

[optical illusion]

Get the 3.2 quattro otherwise it's like driving a mini or a beetle, i.e. ghey.

That is all.

[soc]

Get the 3.2 quattro otherwise it's like driving a mini or a beetle, i.e. ghey.

That is all.

You reckon - on what basis can you make that statement?

[colm_mcm]

Get the 3.2 quattro otherwise it's like driving a mini or a beetle, i.e. ghey.

That is all.

With respect Laura, that's such a load of nonsense. A 1.8 225 would hand many a normally aspirated FWD Japanese coupe its ar$e. as would a mini Cooper S. the 3.2 TT is overkill IMO.

The TT is a seriously good looking car, it annoys me that people presume or state that it's rubbish to drive just based on that. It's the same as people calling FTOs hairdressers cars.

[optical illusion]

I said a mini, not a Cooper S. Cooper S's are considerably not ghey.

I also never said it was rubbish to drive. I'm quite sure it would hand a jap car it's ar$e. I'm not disputing it's handling or performance.

For looks alone - argh, I will eat you up! (not to mention more bhp, that beautiful V6 noise, better spec, 4WD standard etc), if you can afford a 3.2 then why not get one?

[colm_mcm]

I don't follow your logic at all, a normal TT is bad, but a 3.2 is good.

They both look pretty much the same, so it's not a visual thing, it's just the 1.8 Turbo engine you don't like?

4WD is standard on the 225 and optional on the 180 (most are fitted with it) so it's not the handling, - Haven't driven the 3.2 but I'd imagine that huge lump of an engine doesn't do it any favours in the bends

It can't be outrightpower either - From what I remember the 3.2 only adds 25bhp to the 1.8, and costs around E1000 more to tax every year. 0-60 on a TT 225 Sport and a 3.2 are nearly identical.

If you're going into that tax bracket, you're into a whole other league of car.

[soc]

I said a mini, not a Cooper S. Cooper S's are considerably not ghey.

I also never said it was rubbish to drive. I'm quite sure it would hand a jap car it's ar$e. I'm not disputing it's handling or performance.

For looks alone - argh, I will eat you up! (not to mention more bhp, that beautiful V6 noise, better spec, 4WD standard etc), if you can afford a 3.2 then why not get one?

Why do people make such sweeping statements about cars they clearly don't know that well - NOI but lots of people do it.

There is very little real difference between a standard 3.2 and a standard 225. The standard spec is largely the same. The 3.2 has 250bhp and some subtle body additions (different front bumper, larger rear spoiler) - both (post 2002) come with 18's and both come with quattro as standard (regardless of year). The 3.2 has an optional DSG gearbox which from what I've read is a a love it or hate it thing (and potentially unreliable). The 225 handles better out of the box due to approx 20mm lower suspension and a lighter front end but this is marginal. Both have the option of xenons, bose, aircon, full leather, heated seats, etc.

The main selling point of the 3.2 is the sweet sounding engine but that wouldn't be enough for me to justify 1500 euro in road tax given it's relative lack of bhp for size of engine - it would make way more sense to buy something like an E46 M3. I suspect this is why it was never a big seller over here - I've only ever seen 3 or 4 for sale in Ireland.

I won't bother justifying why I bought a 225 suffice to say it's a car I'm considering garaging when the time comes.